I had an interesting talk with my sister last time I visited, about why she would go back to work now that she has my adorable niece. My sister works in a daycare center, she stays with 10 kids who aren’t hers all day, then comes back home and does more of the same. The local law says she can’t have her daughter attend the daycare so she leaves early, drops the kid off with another nanny and picks her up after daycare. I told her she should be a stay at home nanny, take two or three other kids in, which would be easy since she is already in the business and all her friends have kids the same age, then she could take care of her own child too. Her answer was she needed to keep her sanity and that meant going out of the house and working somewhere else.
I get that, she is an independent woman, wants to feel like she is contributing something to the household, and making a difference at the daycare as well as taking a breath away from her daughter 8 hours a day.
She makes about $1,800 net, which is not huge but reasonable for this type of work..
Let’s see what she spends on to go to work.
Daycare $600. Yep, 1/3 of her salary goes to another nanny.
Second car $250. Assuming general maintenance for an old car they wouldn’t need if she didn’t work, insurance on the car, and $50 gas per month.
Taxes $180. This is the tax on her bracket, she would pay about 10% taxes.
Husband taxes $200 Because her husband makes more money, if she didn’t work they would get a tax rebate on his income. Not only she pays taxes on her salary but she increases the household’s tax bracket. That is probably the last thing people think about when they go back to work.
Clothes $50. She doesn’t spend much on clothing but needs to be presentable at work.
Convenience food $100. Because she works, she is tired when she comes home and doesn’t cook from scratch every day. Lots of frozen meals and a bigger grocery bill.
Misc $20. There is always a colleague’s birthday, or collect for a baby shower, or something where she would end up pitching in. Sometimes they go out to lunch too.
Sick days $50. At least once a month, my niece would be sick, or need some special care, and the nanny wouldn’t take her in. My sister can’t go to work and loses money. She still gets to pay the nanny when that happens!
Total: $1,450
My sister makes $350 at her full time job.
You could factor many other things to calculate how much you really make by going back to work.
Do you stop for coffee on the way? Add $100/ month.
Need a train or bus card?
Do you have a cleaner because you are both so busy?
If you stayed at home you would maybe make your husband a lunchbox, but now he gets to eat out? Add his lunches’ price.
If you stayed at home, you would have time to be awesome at optimizing the household’s finances, finding deals, maybe even clipping coupons? Add the price of convenience.
I would stay at home, $350 is no fair compensation to spend the day away from your child.
My sister is different, having a job makes her happy and like I explained in this post about money and values, sometimes, it is not just about money.
She is a deeply caring and generous person, who does work for the daycare at home because ‘’we don’t have time during the day so I bring back the admin work here’’ and never gets paid for the extra hours she puts in.
Most importantly, she is aware of the hidden costs of having a job (like convenience or extra taxes) and choses to do so in spite of it. If you are considering going back to work, make sure you factor in all the costs associated, not just daycare.
What would you have done in her case? If you have kids, did you consider all costs before going back to work?
You’re not considering all the benefits either. $350 is just the current salary benefit.
http://nicoleandmaggie.wordpress.com/2011/11/21/the-wohsah-decision-finances/
Also, I don’t know if you’ve ever stayed with a small child all day, but I find myself *more* in need of convenience food rather than less. Taking care of a small child is nothing like staying at home by yourself.
You are right, there are retirement benefits too. I have stayed with my niece for a few days in a row, and have a brother who is 17 years younger that I used to take care of a lot, true that you feel like there is not enough time and want to reach for convenience some days! but their mums used to leave me with most of the home made food ready so I didn’t have to find the time to chop and steam veggies.
Does your sister receive any other non salary benefits from her job? That might make it a bit different. Just looking at the salary I would not say it’s worth it, but it’s a personal call in my opinion. We looked at all the costs when my wife was to go back to work and it was not worth it as daycare cots are just crazy ridiculous…and it’s certainly not something you would want to skimp on. Thankfully she was able to wok out a situation with her employer that allowed her to work from home.
no, she doesn’t get a thing. The retirement is funded by the state in France so you get the same benefits whatever the company you work in and she has no private pension. Since it is a small daycare, they don’t have benefits like big companies either.
My wife went back to work because she loves her job as an event planner. It costs us about half her paycheck to pay for daycare, but we more than make up for it with her much much less expensive insurance (with better coverage) than what I would be able to get for the family. She was also getting a little stir crazy staying at home too since she was not interacting with adults much. So her sanity was also important to her.
sanity is priceless! in your case the insurance makes it worth your while too. In France my sister gets the same coverage whether she is employed or not.
If she’s not getting any other benefits (such as insurance or retirement), then if it were me I would choose to stay home. That is of course unless she LOVES her job and finds value in it.
love is a big word but she likes it. She values her sanity the most.
I have been a stay at home mom for 6 years, adding a second child 3 years ago. Most days I am thankful to be able to stay home with our girls, but there are some days I want to tear my hair out, because they can be very frustrating.
I would not have gone back to work for the above salary, especially since she is basically doing the same thing she would be doing with her own child. That $350 just isn’t enough for me, and there are lots of children who are not very well behaved. If I am going to spend time with children all day, I would want it to be my own.
You made some really great points in the post, I hadn’t thought of some of these “costs” – especially the extra tax on her husband’s income.
The costs or benefits of a job aren’t always obvious, if you have a cell phone through work that is a saving, if you make calls with your personal phone that is an extra expense, etc. I think with a normal wage it doesn’t really make sense to go back to work with 2-3 kids but understand women who want to work instead of staying home.
From my observations, this decision is something that most of my female friends have made way in advance.
A lot of successful educated women basically checked out of the workforce permanently after they had kids. They seem very happy with their decision. I’m not sure how they’re going to re-enter the workforce years later if they want to because their skills will have atrophied to where they may not be marketable anymore. But I’m assuming that they’ve thought about this already.
On the other hand I know a few power-professional women who went right back to work. They seem happy even though they’re coughing up exorbitant amounts of money for day care.
I even know a few part-timers who are keeping one foot in career land and one in mommy land. I have an idea where each of them will wind up, but time will tell if I’m right or not.
If you are a Marissa Mayer sure you can have half a dozen nannies and cleaners, and be back at work three weeks after having a baby. I think I would check out and never re-enter the workforce but that is because I am not corporate material and would be much happier at home. It is very hard to get back on the saddle at 45 when your teenage kids don’t need you so much, or keep feeling valuable in the family dynamics. Whatever you choose has to be a very well thought and personal decision. For high earners it is easier to choose though, a big net worth can help you live without work and big salary can easily cover daycare.
“If you are a Marissa Mayer sure you can have half a dozen nannies and cleaners, and be back at work three weeks after having a baby.”
I laughed when I read this. “Get a nanny” was actual advice given by a mentor (female) to other young professional female trainees.
A good friend of mine compromised and went part time, which seems to have worked out well for their family. She still gets adult time, and dad is super involved with the kids, too – since he’s a primary care giver when she’s at work.
Sounds like a good arrangement so not only the woman has to sacrifice career and adult time.
My wife and I have just dealt with this. We put our son in daycare because my wife loves her job and it wouldn’t be very good living conditions if we had to live on just my salary. We would only be able to pay the bills and nothing else. It just wouldn’t work. It has been a week and I think my wife is doing well with it. This type of thing is a very personal situation and is different for everyone.
Of course it is different for every couple, that is why my sister is happily back at work in spite of bringing so little money back home, she wouldn’t change it for the world. Money definitely weighs more in my balance than hers.
If I had found myself in that situation, I think I`d rather stay at home, and as you suggested, nanny a couple other kids as well.
I am all for staying at home but that’s just because there is no amount of money that will bring me back to an office! my sister’s personality is totally the opposite and she needs her job to be happy.
If she works 40 hours/week and 160 hours/month then she’s making $2.18 per hour. If she loves it, it would be awesome to bring the business back to her house. Eliminating the commute, and increasing household productivity would make her pay skyrocket significantly.
the French only work 35h/week 🙂 and she gets 5 weeks holiday per year. But you are right, seen only with a financial scope, she should work from home, save $600 on her own child’s daycare to start with and make a daycare center at home for other kids. She doesn’t seem to see her hourly wage like this, she only considers the cost of daycare as her cost of working, so she thinks she makes $1200, not $350 like I calculated.
35 hours/week sounds a lot better than 40. Which is actually 50 with commuting. And 60 when you take into account decompressing/destressing.
A lot of people don’t really know how to value their actual wage. She should definitely read “Your Money or Your Life”. She would definitely “get it” after that read. 🙂
haha I have tried but she sees a paycheck and thinks that is what she earns..
(any missing details aside) There is no way I would encourage my wife to leave our child to make a few extra bucks. That’s crazy.
If she has a passion, I’ll definitely encourage her to pursue it – but on our terms. Just take the leap and start the business from home!
The $350 my sister brings doesn’t really make a difference on the couple’s budget but I know she is proud to bring a paycheck. And definitely not cut to be an entrepreneur. It is great to be able to afford choices not based on the financial aspect but what you want as an individual.
For me I feel that this decision is already made in my case as I make a good chunk of money. Even with expensive child care costs I know I am going back to work after having any kids. But I would have a hard time justifying working if I was only bringing in an extra $350 a month and wasn’t getting any other benefits such as Health or 401K contributions. In that case I would probably try a part time gig where Icould work evenings or weekends so the child wouldn’t have to go to daycare.
This is a tough call because in France you don’t really need healthcare on top of public social security, and 401Ks equivalents are very rare. As a kind of social worker she does not even get the government’s pension because she has to pass an exam for that (that she will do this year). So yes she can open a home daycare but other than this it is not in her genes to have a side hustle or a freelance job. In your case of course it makes more sense to go back to work, although I hope you will be able to make a decision that is not only based on money but what you really want.
I also think since her career is in child care, her staying home and watching other children wont affect her long term when she did go back to work. For me being an engineer, If I stayed home I would losing years of experience in my field.
digging-my-way-out
I’m going to avoid this mostly because I’m not a parent and I think there is a lot that goes into these kinds of decisions and I’m sure they are never easy. What I will say is what frustrates me is that in MOST cases, it’s always the woman who has to make these tough decision. And not matter what she decided, it almost always seems like someone has an opinion or can be critical. 🙁 (not referring to you, but society as a whole)
Sure, you have to make whatever works for you. I would never work for $350 per month but my sister is happy doing it and couldn’t live my life. Sometimes I wonder if we grew up together lol.
My mother did in-home day care while she was raising us. Another important, non-financial benefit that you missed is the opportunity to interact with other adults.
that is true, although my sister’s best friends have kids the same age and they are primary school teachers so they are off by 4pm and usually get together with my sister to take the kids to the park and interact. They rarely have a moment without the kids, just between adults though.
I would definitely start my own daycare if I were her. If she is worried about her sanity, and leaving the house, go somewhere local with all the kids! The park, amusement parks, etc….I think she could make just as much, if not more if she has her own childcare business and be able to save all that money in childcare and still get to create her own job.
unfortunately she is not the entrepreneur type. Most nannies spend half a day or a day per week at daycare so the kids socialize, plus all the time in the parks and activities. I would stay at home too!
When we have children I’ll probably work at night. My wife’s employer covers our insurance, so it wouldn’t make sense for her to leave work.
For the reasons that you’ve pointed out, sometimes financially it might not make sense for bother spouses to work. It might make more financial sense for her to work nights or weekends at a different job, but then there would other things she would end up giving up. Like spending time with her family etc…
and in your case, health insurance is a very important point to consider. it is great that you are considering being the caretaker, whether it ends up being you or her, at least you are considering both options.
I see it as a team effort so I wouldn’t just assume that my wife should be the one to stay at home with the kids. Plus it just makes sense for us to do it that way.
I am a stay-at-home mom. If I would have gone back to work after having my daughter, the daycare costs alone, would have eaten up my entire paycheck. It is very expensive for daycare where I live. Financially, it was better for me to stay home rather than my husband. His salary, although we worked different occupations, was more than double what I made. It made sense for our family, for me to stay home. It really has been the best decision and I am quite happy with it 🙂
I would stay at home too if daycare was taking most of my salary, glad it worked out well for you guys!
Good timing. Bf and I were just talking about this the other day. With the cost of daycare in our area, I’d much rather stay at home and be with my kids (when I have some) then work a 9-5. I make decent money, but with so much potentially going to a nanny, I’d rather work per diems shifts at off hours and stay at home, if it’s possible.
So you would work by night and not see much of you bf? that would be tough. And then come back, have a little sleep and take care of the kids all day, wow. I know it all changes when you have kids and you can get by on less sleep, so I try to enjoy my sleep for now haha. One of the good things of not being a parent.
A Jolly hats-off to all the parents. Mega-logistics. Geesh!
Indeed. I don’t know how they invent hours out of the day, but could use a bit of that magic and learn how to be more organized.
My mum was a stay at home mum and my sister and sister-in-law, cousins, etc. I remember growing up most of my mates mums were stay at home mums. I notice a big difference here in Canada where lots of mums go to work. I guess it all depends on the line of work as well and like you point out the net income.
Not sure the net income has so much to do, like my sister who works for $350 or maybe less, but rather a personal decision based on the mother, her personality and goals in life. Before women didn’t think about that too much, worked for a few years as secretaries or in a factory then got married, had kids and never worked again. Now women want to be more independent and it is hard to impose yourself as a woman when you are ”just” the mother, cook and cleaner to all. I see how I could be more than a glorified maid but many women have that limiting belief from their own mothers or grandmas.
If I worked in daycare, I’d certainly stay home and take in kids there. That’s a strange rule that you can’t have your own child. I’ve know people who took jobs in a day care just so they could be with their kids. They might not be in the same class with their child, but in the same building anyway. That being said, some people need to work and the stay at home mom thing doesn’t work for their personality. My sister, who is a dentist, stayed home for 7 months with her first child and almost lost her mind. I’m kind of the same way. I much prefer not working full time, but still being able to have some sort of career.
It is weird, I guess because it is a small facility with three rooms she would be too tempted to go check on her kid several times a day. I don’t think I would need the career part too badly but definitely would enjoy some grown up time without the kid(s) once in a while.
I don’t think I could stay home with a child, no matter what the pay. I would go crazy! I have a bad impression of what it means to be a stay-at-home mom, I guess. My own mother would spend most the day cooking, cleaning and watching TV while I was growing up. I spend my days creating beautiful software applications, hanging out with my colleagues and learning new things. I don’t know how I could give that up.
Strangely, I was the same five years ago, thinking I would never give up my job for a kid, now I find it quite amazing to be responsible for the growth of a little human. The first months of cook/clean/feed can be tough for sure, and you need to establish your role as a wife and a woman of top of just a mum.
We are currently evaluating a similar proposition. While technically we will get more money if my wife goes back to work, we both feel our son will benefit more from her being at home with him. So we will have to wait and see how things turn out.
It is a very personal decision, if she stays she may damage her career quite a bit but also be so happy being a mum she never wants to go back..
While I definitely can see your point that she really isn’t making that much versus living at home, I think some people (like your sister) simply don’t want to be a stay at home mom and feel good about working. My wife will never be a stay at home mom and her career is very important to her.
oh no she won’t stay at home. I was just surprised since she works in a daycare and she could have a home daycare and take care of her own child instead of 10 random kids. And she would build more experience in her field so if she comes back to a daycare in 5 years it won’t be like a lawyer taking a 5 year break.
Love this post, Pauline!! I’ve been home since the end of 2004, and yes, it’s definitely different for everyone. But I would also add that being a stay at home mom takes some learning if you’re going to overcome the challenges, just like any job does. In order to succeed at being at home, you have to treat it as a career. Raising our children and doing it well is extremely important work, as they will go out and have an affect on society, for better or for worse. But three things I really had to learn as a SAHM are that I need to choose to find the value and joy in it, I need to make sure I’m interacting with others and taking breaks from my “job” regularly, and I need to maximize our “income” by spending less and creating some at home income. Staying home isn’t for everyone, but with some work, creativitiy and a good support system, I’ve found it to be an amazing blessing. The best job I’ve ever had. 🙂
glad you enjoy it! I think I would too, raising kids has to be tons of fun. Most of the time.
Ah, such a difficult, personal topic – of course, all the best topics are! I am a working Mom and always knew I would be. I love what I do and being a stay-at-home Mom has never been a goal of mine. People may argue that working to pay for daycare is silly – and to extent that may be true – but I’m doing what I love and believe I’m a better Mom and role model to my girls because of it. My heart does break for those Moms and Dads who want nothing more than to be able to stay at home with their kids but cannot afford it.
That is great you can base your decision not only on money. People who are doing it because they “can’t afford to stay home” but spend 75% of their salary on work related costs like my sister should sit down and see if they really can’t afford it. The extra $350 my sister brings is not a big deal and they could do without, should she decide she doesn’t want to work anymore. It would take some budget spring cleaning though.
I think it totally depends on the person. I went to university for 6 years to get my career and I love it but I’m still struggling with returning to work. If I didn’t have any debt and was in your sisters situation it would be a no-brainer for me but I simply make too much money and we have too much debt.
it is personal indeed, I hope most people consider all the factors and not just the money though.
From what you wrote it sounds like your sister is not really doing this so much for the money but ” to keep her sanity by going out of the house and working somewhere else”. If that is the main reason, then even 350 extra would be a good consideration, it’s not like she is losing money by doing it. Staying at home and taking kids in wouldn’t give her what she is looking for. An alternative would be to find something better paid, which is likely possible, but as you said she is not entrepreneurial, and she likes her work, so why not?
I am a working mom and my husband is stay at home dad and we can both vouch that when sanity is at stake, finances take a second priority 🙂
yes, she does it more for sanity, and I think a bit of pride to bring back a paycheck too (since she doesn’t really account for all those costs to get her real wage). Thankfully, like you, they have the option not to let finances rule the decisions.
In our case, my wife choose to work, because we have a lot of debt to be pay off. We have already a plan, if she will stop working two years from now, she have to open a mini grocery business.
Does your sister gets other benefits like company match for social security system or health insurance? Health insurance is very important to limit the costly medical bill.
it is good that your wife has options. My sister doesn’t get health insurance but healthcare is very cheap in France, a visit to the doctor only costs $10 in copay, the rest is covered by social security.
Like Kasey, I’m an engineer. I am pretty sure I’ll go back to work if/when I have kids. It’s what my mother did too, so that helps it seem ‘ok’ to me. Regardless of the $ after 7 hours with twin two year olds yesterday (whose mother works part time), I know I’d need the break, the adult conversation, just the plain ‘time out of the house’. The mum of said kids is (not by choice) single, and it’s SO much harder – confirming just how difficult things can be!
That being said, I’m open to the idea that when kids come, my emotions and feelings might change and I’d deal with that then. In any case, I don’t judge one way or another.
it is too personal to judge indeed, and like my sister, you can go back to work even though it doesn’t make financial sense, for your sanity. But some people make the decision based on money instead of their happiness. If my sister said “I bring $1,800 and we need it to survive” I would show her she actually brings $350 and this is something she could easily trim out of her budget if she wanted to stay at home. For any average earner, there is virtually no financial incentive to go back to work, it has to be because work brings you something more, fulfillment, joy, whatever it is.
I personally love to work at home because you have no boss to follow, you get to handle your own time schedule plus you can sleep anytime you want!
My mum was a stay at home mum and my sister and sister-in-law, cousins, etc. I remember growing up most of my mates mums were stay at home mums. I notice a big difference here in Canada where lots of mums go to work. I guess it all depends on the line of work as well and like you point out the net income.